Companion AI and Mechanics

[Moonface]

I'm currently watching someone playing Kingdom Hearts 2, and they've just started a boss fight in the Pirates of the Caribbean level that happens right after Jack steals one of the coins to become cursed, which if you don't know the movie it means he can't die. He serves as a companion to you in the fight, however, he can somehow die?! Even though he literally just became immortal, if his health goes too low then you game over. That utter level of bullshit for an AI companion is what made me think of this thread.


Now I'm not against AI companions having a health bar. If Ashley in RE4 didn't have one for example it would mean the only risk to her is being kidnapped, which would ruin the whole concept of escorting her character through the game. On the other hand, companions in the Uncharted and The Last of Us games do not have health, and while for the latter games it would thematically fit in the companion AI would need to be vastly improved for them to not end up dead every two seconds on higher difficulties. Something TLoU did do with companions that I did like though was making them invisible to enemies during stealth, even if it does result in some funny moments where Ellie will run right into an enemy sometimes when she's moving positions in the first game.


So when it comes to companions, how do you feel about certain mechanics and/or their AI, either overall or within a particular game/genre?

[Maniakkid25]

I would actually rather ally AI I'm escorting not have a health bar. It means I don't have to micro-manage their position and health if their AI does something stupid. Elizabeth from Bioshock Infinite immediately comes to mind. She's always following you until combat happens, at which point she literally disappears off the map, only reappearing to aid you in some way (ammo pickups, field drops, stuff like that). The implication is she's smart enough to get out of the line of fire, only appearing when she has something you might want, as well as the enemies having the knowledge of who Elizabeth is, and maybe they shouldn't shoot her?

Another time where AI companions was a bad idea is Persona 3. See, in the original versions of the game on the PS2 -- so the original and FES -- your party members were controlled by AI only. You could give them general commands to influence what they tend to do, but they do whatever the hell they feel like otherwise (Mitsuru...). What's nice about this is they have their own stock of items. I don't think I need to explain the downsides of this in a JRPG setting. There's a reason they stole the combat from Persona 4 when making P3P.

Of course, if we are talking about AI companions, we should address the elephant in the room: Sheva Alomar. In her original incarnation, she was rock stupid. So rock stupid that a challenge gamer (ZEROistaken) did a challenge run where he was tasked with AI SHEVA never taking damage, and this was on the PC with her improved AI! She didn't respond to you being bound, dying, or anything unless you called out to her, and some of the things she would do would be outright kick-worthy in an online match-up! She was not very bright, and could outright ruin a game for some people. Sheva is a stain on AI companions, and it's likely never coming out.

[Moonface]

I would actually rather ally AI I'm escorting not have a health bar. It means I don't have to micro-manage their position and health if their AI does something stupid. Elizabeth from Bioshock Infinite immediately comes to mind. She's always following you until combat happens, at which point she literally disappears off the map, only reappearing to aid you in some way (ammo pickups, field drops, stuff like that). The implication is she's smart enough to get out of the line of fire, only appearing when she has something you might want, as well as the enemies having the knowledge of who Elizabeth is, and maybe they shouldn't shoot her?

I might be misremembering but how do you feel about ally's such as Ashley in RE4R where she doesn't have a health bar, but instead will just be incapacitated if she takes a heavy hit? For me I can't decide if I prefer that over how it was in the original RE4 where she has an upgradeable health bar but can take damage from everything.

Another time where AI companions was a bad idea is Persona 3. See, in the original versions of the game on the PS2 -- so the original and FES -- your party members were controlled by AI only. You could give them general commands to influence what they tend to do, but they do whatever the hell they feel like otherwise (Mitsuru...). What's nice about this is they have their own stock of items. I don't think I need to explain the downsides of this in a JRPG setting. There's a reason they stole the combat from Persona 4 when making P3P.

As someone who doesn't have a ton of experience with JRPG's (or RPG's in general really) I'm trying to actually figure this one out still.

Of course, if we are talking about AI companions, we should address the elephant in the room: Sheva Alomar. In her original incarnation, she was rock stupid. So rock stupid that a challenge gamer (ZEROistaken) did a challenge run where he was tasked with AI SHEVA never taking damage, and this was on the PC with her improved AI! She didn't respond to you being bound, dying, or anything unless you called out to her, and some of the things she would do would be outright kick-worthy in an online match-up! She was not very bright, and could outright ruin a game for some people. Sheva is a stain on AI companions, and it's likely never coming out.

Ha, I knew Sheva was going to be mentioned in here when I made the thread. I wouldn't be surprised if she's the most notorious AI companion in any video game just for how many copies RE5 sold and how you never get a moment in the game without her (unlike RE4 where Ashley wasn't always with Leon). I'll never forget the first time I gave her an SMG and watched her just blow through all of her ammo in seconds because she just fires at an enemy non-stop until they die, rather than using it for stuns and melee attacks like the weapon is intended to be used. I think I ended up just giving her a shotgun or rifle without upgrading the fire rate so she couldn't spam it too much, while keeping the weapons that can be used for stuns like handguns and SMG's for myself.
I've never witnessed her AI on Professional difficulty, and I don't know if I want to. Playing that difficulty in online co-op with @Karo was painful when it came to how short the timer is for picking up a downed partner, and there's no way Sheva's AI is programmed to handle that.

[Maniakkid25]

I might be misremembering but how do you feel about ally's such as Ashley in RE4R where she doesn't have a health bar, but instead will just be incapacitated if she takes a heavy hit? For me I can't decide if I prefer that over how it was in the original RE4 where she has an upgradeable health bar but can take damage from everything.  

Oh, no, don't misunderstand: that is a health bar. Just because her HP is 1 doesn't mean she doesn't have a health bar. I'm talking about AI companions that straight up have infinite health or cannot be attacked. RE6 is actually a good example, here: the AI companions have infinite health, which is good because they are rock stupid, again.

As someone who doesn't have a ton of experience with JRPG's (or RPG's in general really) I'm trying to actually figure this one out still.

You have no control over what attacks they make, which is why I point out Mitsuru specifically, because she WILL waste turns using status effect attacks on bosses that are always immune to those attacks. Any player with any sense will figure that out quickly. The AI will still waste precious turns using attacks that you know will have no effect in a game series noted for penalizing you for attacking under poor affinities. The only good news is that if you scan a boss with Fuuka, the AI magically knows all their strengths and weaknesses despite the fact that you get a big-ass question mark as your answer to their affinities. There is a reason why, in Persona 4, they added a "follow my direct commands" option to the list of AI dispositions. You have to switch to it every time you unlock a new character, but it means that you don't have to deal with the stupid AI.